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Report 1382
Report #1382 Skillset: Stag Skill: Greenman Org: Hartstone Status: Completed Sept 2015 Furies' Decision: Approved for h/m/e regen at 1/5. Problem: With endurance and willpower gone, Stag's Greenman paint is left without an effect. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: When painted with Greenman, killing an npc will restore some health to the user. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: In addition to solution 1, having greenman painted gives a small chance that using a curative will consume the balance but not the curative. 0 R: 0 Solution #3: In addition to Solution 1, greenman gives slight resistance to wafer afflictions. Player Comments: ---on 9/11 @ 15:20 writes: The intent is to mirror the Trueheart paint, which has a niche combat application AND a minor buff to Influencing. The thought is that Solution 1 will be useful for hunting (as trueheart is for influencing). The combat effect is up in the air, I've included one that was suggested and am looking for additional options. ---on 9/11 @ 19:01 writes: HP on kill and reduced curatives are fine. You could even go with regen buffs if that would be simpler/actually help. With reduced affs and cures, aff blocking skills are a lot more powerful than they were so no support for that. ---on 9/12 @ 09:40 writes: This seems fine to me ---on 9/12 @ 19:16 writes: @Llandros I wanted to avoid a regen buff expressly because it would be less helpful. Without any class-specific, racial, godly, karmic, or artifact/limited item boosts, I easily get up to 7 levels of health regen. In a forest terrain or during the day, that number only goes up. Regen just isn't a useful property for a paint, leaving aside that each level of regen is a fairly small amount of healing once every 10 seconds. ---on 9/12 @ 19:27 writes: All three solutions are asking for a mirror of one of Crowform's benefits, as a facepaint. In addition, it is stacking with very good health restoration already available to Stag (both Medicinebag and TotemCall) which are an option for any Stag user, especially if they spend a little bit of time gathering essence to draw as much power as they want. Stag does not need to give additional healing outside of regen levels than it already has, because it is already one of the best in the game. ---on 9/12 @ 19:29 writes: @Llandros I wanted to avoid a regen buff expressly because it would be less helpful. Without any class-specific, racial, godly, karmic, or artifact/limited item boosts, I easily get up to 7 levels of health regen. In a forest terrain or during the day, that number only goes up. Regen just isn't a useful property for a paint, leaving aside that each level of regen is a fairly small amount of healing once every 10 seconds. ---on 9/12 @ 19:29 writes: Oops, sorry for the repeat comment. ---on 9/12 @ 20:02 writes: My suggestion would be: Make it a health/mana/ego regen with a sub-10 cap (maybe 8). This way you're retaining its original style, which is something useful & helpful to lower level / non-Demigod players, but not as useful to established long-term players. That seems the most reasonable path to take this. ---on 9/14 @ 02:34 writes: Looks fine to me. Supported. ---on 9/16 @ 00:33 writes: Uh, you want improved crowform as a facepaint? Come on. Rejected. Be reasonable. ---on 9/22 @ 22:44 writes: I have been trying to figure out what to comment for this report, including doing some research on the mythos of the Greenman, but am unable to find something suitable. I have to agree with Celina that it seems to be a 2 paint version of a 10p skill and in that regard raise objection to it. Any thoughts I have as to what to do with the skill are very situational, but I don't think adding more healing or even making it a regen buff is the way to go. Currently, the skill is an always on, always useful (or was till WP and END got removed) skill and I would like to see it retain that sort of usefulness for any level. ---on 9/22 @ 22:46 writes: I should have said after reading the comments and looking into it, I have been trying to figure out what to comment (my original support of the report has obviously changed with more in depth knowledge of the situation) ---on 9/28 @ 21:28 writes: I rate low level healing (like minor regen buffs) very lowly on a scale of strength. An ability that saves you a sparkleberry after you've already killed an npc rates even lower, at least comprable to trueheart, crowsfeet, or spiderweb - its closest analogues. That this is one of the minor effects associated with crowform is something that escaped me - I thought it was a feature of the earlier carrion skill. Either way, it's disingenuous to compare it to one of the several effects of that ability, in the same way that it would be silly to disprove of any celerity bonuses in any skillset because Stagform includes a celerity bonus and costs a WHOLE TEN POWER. The original solutions were for a non-direct regen solution because of the ease all players have in stacking moderate regeneration levels, and the very minor effect a few extra levels have on health totals - increasing regeneration by mere percentage points of total hp over ten seconds. Having an effect that heals a small amount of hp when killing a mob helps younger players who lack later abilities in Stag to engage slightly better with grouping mobs (like the Grey Moors Aslarans and Krokani) and bash in general more than regen will, without disproprotionally scaling for established players. It's REALLY not a big deal. ---on 9/28 @ 21:28 writes: That said, making it a regeneration effect plus some other minor utility side benefit, or just a unique utility skill (analogous to crowsfeet, the only personal way to see the movements of dreambodies) would also be fine. Some suggestions have related to making curatives have a chance to not be consumed while the paint is on, having it offer a chance to resist a certain affliction or small subset of afflictions (analogous to spiderweb, bonenose) when painted, or making greenman increase stun or blackout immunities slightly. I have no strong attachment to any of those suggestions, and there isn't any extant lore on the greenman to guide the solutions. As long as it's an effect that has a situational chance to compete with trueheart.